Forums - MvC1 help-with my character Show all 79 posts from this thread on one page Forums (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/index.php) - Strategy & Tactics (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?forumid=10) -- MvC1 help-with my character (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=43837) Posted by kajin on 10:18:2001 11:45 PM: MvC1 help-with my character im looking for good strider double jump combos.. and super damaging combos Posted by TimeFlip on 10:19:2001 12:18 AM: Strider's double jump is the same as in MVC2: D+Jp,D+Sk,D+Fp/\Jp,Sk,Mp,Fk*pause*Sk, Double Jump, Jp,Sk,Mp,Fk,QCF+Jp Now my friend does this too: D+Jp,D+Sk,D+Fp/\Sk,Sk,Sk, Double Jump Jp,Sk,Mp,Fk,QCF+Jp It works like CapAmerica's double jump combo. ANd for damaging combo: You can activate Ouroboros, teleport near your opponent, Jp,Sk,Jp,Sk(around 3 times), Ragnarok. And to chip with Psy assist or Sent(those work well at least) Legion, Call assist, Legion... Posted by Dasrik on 10:19:2001 12:56 AM: You don't need to go for Strider double jump combos. Just do this: s.forward -> s.fierce -> s.roundhouse xx short ghram (DP+K) Easy 40% damage. Only do the dj combo if you launch a jump-in. Posted by kajin on 10:19:2001 01:48 AM: dasrik, please im not familer with those notations.... so, i call the buttons these lp mp fp lk mk hk please be more patient with me... Plain ENGLISH TERMS help alot Posted by Dasrik on 10:19:2001 01:53 AM: quote: Originally posted by kajin dasrik, please im not familer with those notations.... so, i call the buttons these lp mp fp lk mk hk please be more patient with me... Plain ENGLISH TERMS help alot WTF? "Forward" and "Fierce" aren't plain enough English terms for you, but "mk" and "hp" are? You could try, one of these days, to read the words on top of the buttons instead of getting an IV to GameFAQs for all your information needs (like what color panties MK Sakura wears). Posted by kajin on 10:19:2001 01:57 AM: well can you help or what?? Posted by Josh-TheFunkDOC on 10:19:2001 01:58 AM: Yo kajin: Here's how the buttons are most commonly notated here on SRK: Jab = LP Strong = MP Fierce = HP Short = LK Forward = MK Roundhouse = HK Just an FYI. Josh the FunkDOC Posted by C-Royd on 10:19:2001 02:10 AM: quote: Originally posted by Dasrik You don't need to go for Strider double jump combos. Just do this: s.forward -> s.fierce -> s.roundhouse xx short ghram (DP+K) Easy 40% damage. Only do the dj combo if you launch a jump-in. that's not necessarily true. What if yu're within Oroborous? Then the more hits, the better. --and whoever made this thread. Sorry forgot your name and too lazy to go back. Don't end any combo with any fireball motion. Yes it gives you more hits but please remember in MvC1 opponents will short roll while you're landing and you'll get punished. Posted by strider_hien on 10:19:2001 02:15 AM: quote: Originally posted by C-Royd that's not necessarily true. What if yu're within Oroborous? Then the more hits, the better. --and whoever made this thread. Sorry forgot your name and too lazy to go back. Don't end any combo with any fireball motion. Yes it gives you more hits but please remember in MvC1 opponents will short roll while you're landing and you'll get punished. yeah that's true, if you do it in the corner, and wolverine short rolls, you're screwed. Instead, for strider, use his DP+p/k, i don't think you can roll for that (haven't played in a while) Posted by aquarake on 10:19:2001 02:17 AM: quote: WTF? "Forward" and "Fierce" aren't plain enough English terms for you, but "mk" and "hp" are? You could try, one of these days, to read the words on top of the buttons instead of getting an IV to GameFAQs for all your information needs (like what color panties MK Sakura wears). RED Posted by C Royd on 10:19:2001 03:04 AM: quote: Originally posted by strider_hien yeah that's true, if you do it in the corner, and wolverine short rolls, you're screwed. Instead, for strider, use his DP+p/k, i don't think you can roll for that (haven't played in a while) DP doesnt link in a double jump combo Posted by BarrelO on 10:19:2001 03:22 AM: You want damaging combos? Here's one with Red Venom (hey, somebody had to mention him eventually): In the corner, launch with S.HP. Pause for a second, then jump straight up and do J.MK. Then do J.HP, J.HK, J.HP, J.HK...repeat until dead. Stick in a J.MK before the J.HP on occasion to keep them from falling out of it. After you kill the first character and the second one comes in, take a step back and jump forward with J.HP. Then do J.HK (it'll guard break) and proceed with the infinite. Posted by soujiroten on 10:19:2001 06:36 AM: More hits does *NOT* necessarily mean BETTER. It just means flashier. Here's an example: In MSH, if you pick Psylocke and dash in and do: jab->short->strong->forward->fierce, you actually do *LESS* damage than you would doing a strong->forward->fierce, even though the moves you're doing are the EXACT SAME. Does that make sense? It's because Capcom uses a 'damage scaling' system. Every subsequent hit in a combo does *less* damage than it would if it hit by itself. The scaling factor is usually something like 1 pixel per hit cumulatively. That means the second hit is 1 fewer pixels of damage it would have been. The third hit is 2 fewer pixels. The fourth hit is docked 3 pixels, etc. until you finally reach each successive hit doing only 1 pixel of damage (like Cable's AHVB). Dasrik, are you sure you can do a ghram with a short? I always remember it being forward, fierce, roundhouse, jab ghram. Anyway, Strider's ring super is pretty simple to use. If you get the rings hitting him, just go strong->fierce->roundhouse repeatedly until the rings end, then do it again. If they block it, do it anyway. Never EVER EVER use the wall climb move, or the ragnarok super. It looks neat, it sucks ass. I swear they put that super in just so you could mess up the ring super motion. In the air, strider can link a sj. short after a sj.strong, before he double jumps. So your extended air combo would be: (launch) XX sj.jab, sj. short, sj. strong, (pause) sj. short, sj. strong, (double jump) dj. jab, dj. short, dj. strong, dj. forward, whatever to finish. Looks flashy, but if you hit them on the ground, you're an idiot not to do the 4 hit 40% combo. Why? Thanks to that damage scaling thing I mentioned before, the air combo does *less* damage. If you're *really* not sure about the button names, look on the machine. There's never been a capcom machine with the buttons labeled 'wk' or 'lp'. That naming convention didn't start until the console versions in order to save screen space. Look at the buttons on the machine. --SJ Posted by War_Destroyer on 10:19:2001 08:38 AM: ... quote: Originally posted by BarrelO You want damaging combos? Here's one with Red Venom (hey, somebody had to mention him eventually): In the corner, launch with S.HP. Pause for a second, then jump straight up and do J.MK. Then do J.HP, J.HK, J.HP, J.HK...repeat until dead. Stick in a J.MK before the J.HP on occasion to keep them from falling out of it. After you kill the first character and the second one comes in, take a step back and jump forward with J.HP. Then do J.HK (it'll guard break) and proceed with the infinite. You want real strategies? Pick Gold War Machine and beat the fuck out of every Red Venom on the planet... Posted by kajin on 10:20:2001 01:37 AM: i play on the playstation... so i only play one character... is there way to play two chatacters, without that stupid cross-up shit Posted by teammember001 on 10:20:2001 02:36 AM: Re: ... quote: Originally posted by War_Destroyer You want real strategies? Pick Gold War Machine and beat the fuck out of every Red Venom on the planet... Or choose Wolverine, spend 3 years learning all day mt's throw tactic with all the angles and beat every other character on the planet, including being able to do infinites on GWM. If you think my post is nonsense, go look at yours Posted by Dasrik on 10:20:2001 08:09 AM: quote: Originally posted by soujiroten Dasrik, are you sure you can do a ghram with a short? I always remember it being forward, fierce, roundhouse, jab ghram. It works with both. The reason you do short is so you can hit certain small characters when they are crouching (like Wolverine, Spidey and Roll). quote: Originally posted by teammember001 Or choose Wolverine, spend 3 years learning all day mt's throw tactic with all the angles and beat every other character on the planet, including being able to do infinites on GWM. If you think my post is nonsense, go look at yours 3 years is 2 years, 11 months, 3 weeks, 6 days, 23 hours, and 55 minutes too long to spend trying to learn a theoretical Japanese technique in a game no one really cares about any more. And regarding that Wolverine "infinite" on GWM, I'll believe it when I see someone pull it off consistently during a fight. BTW, do you even know who War_Destroyer is? Posted by War_Destroyer on 10:20:2001 08:43 AM: Re: Re: ... quote: Originally posted by teammember001 ...including being able to do infinites on GWM. You don't know anything about Marvel Vs. Capcom. Posted by powermachine on 10:20:2001 11:56 AM: Re: Re: Re: ... quote: Originally posted by War_Destroyer You don't know anything about Marvel Vs. Capcom. Just because he doesn't knows doen't mean he's not right, since he gots his info from mt, who's clearly considered the best Mvc1 player in the world. He simply brought a perfect executioned TT and an infinite against DWM when people here in US doesn't even know these things were possible. Posted by strider_hien on 10:20:2001 02:04 PM: quote: Originally posted by C Royd DP doesnt link in a double jump combo whoops my bad, thought u were talkiung 'bout the ground combo Posted by MJG on 10:20:2001 02:39 PM: quote: Originally posted by Dasrik WTF? "Forward" and "Fierce" aren't plain enough English terms for you, but "mk" and "hp" are? You could try, one of these days, to read the words on top of the buttons instead of getting an IV to GameFAQs for all your information needs (like what color panties MK Sakura wears). Terrible ... most people I've seen around here call the buttons by L/M/H, because it is simpler they'd rather play the game as opposed to reading the arcade machine. It makes no difference what a person calls a buttons, and you shouldn't act higher than him just because you use the real names of the buttons. Posted by Bernie on 10:20:2001 04:02 PM: quote: Originally posted by C Royd DP doesnt link in a double jump combo It doesn't need to. The move uncombos when it's put into an air combo. That alone makes it worthwhile for Strider to do air combos in the first place. It won't count on the combo meter, but it WILL hit as a combo all the time and do full damage. And this here is the only double jump combo that is worth doing at all: launch /\ sj.strong ->sj.forward, sj.short ->sj.forward, double jump jab ->strong ->forward XX jab Ghram If it all counts as a combo (prior to jab Ghram), it does ~45%, IIRC. And if it uncombos somewhere during the double jump sequence (this happens a lot), you get something like 60%. It's not even all that difficult to learn and get down consistantly. The toughest part is linking back to sj.short and it's much easier to do if you start the super jump chain immediately after the launch. powermachine: quote: Just because he doesn't knows doen't mean he's not right, since he gots his info from mt, who's clearly considered the best Mvc1 player in the world. He simply brought a perfect executioned TT and an infinite against DWM when people here in US doesn't even know these things were possible. Um, considered the best by whom? I've never seen nor heard of mt playing top U.S. MvC1 players when the game still meant something. So this claim is complete bullshit, as far as I'm concerned. Now I'm not pissing on the theory/possibility of the TT, but until I hear that it starts beating high level american Strider or (G)WM, then there's no way I will accept it as the ultimate tactic of MvC1. Again, I want to be clear that this is not me pissing on mt or Japan or anybody else. The fact is the U.S. is the only place in the world that truly gave a shit about MvC1, *in it's prime as a tournament game*, means that if someone hasn't beat U.S., claims of them being the best don't mean shit. It's almost like saying U.S. is the best at Alpha 3 just because we came up with something potentially gamebreaking but haven't used it to beat Japan yet. Posted by strider_hien on 10:20:2001 09:56 PM: quote: Originally posted by Bernie It doesn't need to. The move uncombos when it's put into an air combo. That alone makes it worthwhile for Strider to do air combos in the first place. It won't count on the combo meter, but it WILL hit as a combo all the time and do full damage. And this here is the only double jump combo that is worth doing at all: launch /\ sj.strong ->sj.forward, sj.short ->sj.forward, double jump jab ->strong ->forward XX jab Ghram If it all counts as a combo (prior to jab Ghram), it does ~45%, IIRC. And if it uncombos somewhere during the double jump sequence (this happens a lot), you get something like 60%. It's not even all that difficult to learn and get down consistantly. The toughest part is linking back to sj.short and it's much easier to do if you start the super jump chain immediately after the launch. If it "uncombos" then it can be blocked. Therefore it will do LESS damage than 45...How is that "worthwhile"? I would rather do a whole combo, then have my "uncombo" blocked. The only double jump combo worth doing is this launch /\ sj.wp, sj.wk, sj.mp, sj.mk /\ dj.wp, dj.wk, dj.mp, dj.mk, throw Posted by Bernie on 10:20:2001 11:12 PM: quote: Originally posted by strider_hien If it "uncombos" then it can be blocked. Therefore it will do LESS damage than 45...How is that "worthwhile"? I would rather do a whole combo, then have my "uncombo" blocked. The only double jump combo worth doing is this launch /\ sj.wp, sj.wk, sj.mp, sj.mk /\ dj.wp, dj.wk, dj.mp, dj.mk, throw You don't understand. It will always hit, no matter what the combo meter says. It can't be blocked because MvC1's combo engine won't allow you to block it. It does weird things with the move that makes it hit all the time in that situation. Don't believe me? Just have someone try ending a regular air combo with jab Ghram against you and you'll see. And how can you say your combo is better when the one I posted is guaranteed, does more damage (don't pay attention to the combo meter in this instance!), can uncombo twice, and doesn't have an escape point (tech the air throw)? How much experience do you have with MvC1 Strider? This isn't the same thing as MvC2 Strider, if that's what you're thinking. The game engine is different in terms of what it allows in combos, which is what makes this work in the first place. Posted by strider_hien on 10:20:2001 11:53 PM: quote: Originally posted by Bernie You don't understand. It will always hit, no matter what the combo meter says. It can't be blocked because MvC1's combo engine won't allow you to block it. It does weird things with the move that makes it hit all the time in that situation. Don't believe me? Just have someone try ending a regular air combo with jab Ghram against you and you'll see. And how can you say your combo is better when the one I posted is guaranteed, does more damage (don't pay attention to the combo meter in this instance!), can uncombo twice, and doesn't have an escape point (tech the air throw)? How much experience do you have with MvC1 Strider? This isn't the same thing as MvC2 Strider, if that's what you're thinking. The game engine is different in terms of what it allows in combos, which is what makes this work in the first place. I've been playing MVC1 strider since it came out, and i still continue to use him. Yes, my combo does have an escape point, but how can your combo be unblockable? It's not that i don't believe you, it's just that i want to know a reason WHY. Because in my past experiences, i have been able to block these types of uncombos. Posted by Bernie on 10:21:2001 02:10 AM: quote: Originally posted by strider_hien I've been playing MVC1 strider since it came out, and i still continue to use him. Yes, my combo does have an escape point, but how can your combo be unblockable? It's not that i don't believe you, it's just that i want to know a reason WHY. Because in my past experiences, i have been able to block these types of uncombos. I wish I could tell you exactly why, but that's just the way it works. Haven't you ever noticed that Chun Li's air super at the end of a launch /\ sj.jab ->sj.short combo will hit you even if you know you're able to block after the sj.short? It won't register on the meter (unless you did it fast enough to actually combo, but if that happened, you did the combo wrong and get less damage), but it does hit. It's works on the same principle. Gambit's infinite can use the uncombo properties to stop and start again on certain characters, making the hits do more damage and getting a faster kill by eliminating the damage scaling and the possibility of the character flying out of the infinite. There's probably other examples of uncombos out there, but I'm forgeting them at the moment. Play around with the combos and you'll see that all of this does actually happen. Posted by strider_hien on 10:21:2001 02:56 AM: quote: Originally posted by Bernie I wish I could tell you exactly why, but that's just the way it works. Haven't you ever noticed that Chun Li's air super at the end of a launch /\ sj.jab ->sj.short combo will hit you even if you know you're able to block after the sj.short? It won't register on the meter (unless you did it fast enough to actually combo, but if that happened, you did the combo wrong and get less damage), but it does hit. It's works on the same principle. Gambit's infinite can use the uncombo properties to stop and start again on certain characters, making the hits do more damage and getting a faster kill by eliminating the damage scaling and the possibility of the character flying out of the infinite. There's probably other examples of uncombos out there, but I'm forgeting them at the moment. Play around with the combos and you'll see that all of this does actually happen. After experimenting around with this Reset thing (computer on auto-block) i noticed 2 things. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I did the chun-li thing with the delayed air super, and most of the time they block it, but 1/10 times, they don't. Which is kinda weird. I also tried the strider combo you put, and sometimes they block it. Kinda weird eh? Oh well, i'm not gonna spend 3 years figuring it out, haha Posted by beta on 10:21:2001 06:45 AM: quote: Originally posted by Bernie powermachine: Um, considered the best by whom? I've never seen nor heard of mt playing top U.S. MvC1 players when the game still meant something. So this claim is complete bullshit, as far as I'm concerned. Now I'm not pissing on the theory/possibility of the TT, but until I hear that it starts beating high level american Strider or (G)WM, then there's no way I will accept it as the ultimate tactic of MvC1. Again, I want to be clear that this is not me pissing on mt or Japan or anybody else. The fact is the U.S. is the only place in the world that truly gave a shit about MvC1, *in it's prime as a tournament game*, means that if someone hasn't beat U.S., claims of them being the best don't mean shit. It's almost like saying U.S. is the best at Alpha 3 just because we came up with something potentially gamebreaking but haven't used it to beat Japan yet. If he's considered the best because of the circunstances when he came out with the TT. He went in a topic with Viscant and start explaining perfectly, in details, how and why the TT would beat DWM, RV and the other top tiers(knowing all american strong tactics already). He brought up the lockdown inf and ipressed Viscant(and much more myself pretty well) . From my understanding, with the TT you fight for possible positions(special frame distances) taht are all over the screen. If you get one of this positions, and amazing reflexes, you just make the right paths controlling the relative positioning of your opp and Wolvie will throw everything that is tried at him, including thing slike IM's knee dive or RV's qcf+P. The way that the few japanese players who plays close to mt's level tries to escape this is to develop their games without entering any of the positions and angles where Wolverine's throw becames unbeatable and it seems that, if you don't know the angles, you simply can't win this fight. Someone(I don't remember if it was Viscant)said that it seemed like playing cable without knowing about the AHVB startup, practically hopeless. I think that's why people around here start considering him the best. If he can teach lots of stuff to Viscant, a mature US MvC1 tourney player that saw all the other tops play(so he knows the game from eddie and arturo) he clearly knows more than anyone at US. PLus, I saw japanese players talking about his almighty execution/reflexes, where nobody there chooses mags against him(MvC2, which he barely plays), because he really can block/tech hit everything , so I don't think he would be beaten by execution too. I'm just trying to explain why he's considered the best. Like you said, we can't really know, it's all speculation without a world tourney or something, and even that most players are worse now than before. Just so everybody can knows, according to what I read, the Mvc2 japanese team doesn't play MvC1, they just like doing combos and stuff, but don't understand the TT and barely knows how to deal with DWM and other top tactics. I think I read everythread about teh TT that came up.(opinions from mt, viscant, spiderdan, kdcmarvel, chocobo and more...) so I have a pretty good idea of what can be done with it, at least in theory. If anyone wants to ask something about it, I might be able to answer you. Just my 2 cents Posted by War_Destroyer on 10:21:2001 08:59 AM: Re: Re: Re: Re: ... quote: Originally posted by powermachine ...he gots his info from mt, who's clearly considered the best Mvc1 player in the world. Who, besides you, considers him the best? quote: Originally posted by powermachine He simply brought a perfect executioned TT and an infinite against DWM when people here in US doesn't even know these things were possible. What a coincidence! I do that same combo on all teams! Posted by War_Destroyer on 10:21:2001 09:08 AM: quote: Originally posted by beta If he can teach lots of stuff to Viscant, a mature US MvC1 tourney player that saw all the other tops play(so he knows the game from eddie and arturo) he clearly knows more than anyone at US. Wow, since when did teaching stuff to Viscant make you know more than everyone in the US. Furthermore, when did how much you know determine your skill in the game. This is a ridiculous standard to mark the skill of US players (including myself), and an even more ridiculous statement in general. Posted by Combo Master on 10:21:2001 10:24 AM: quote: Originally posted by kajin i play on the playstation... so i only play one character... is there way to play two chatacters, without that stupid cross-up shit Nope, sorry man! If you want real tag team, play arcade or DC version of MvC1. By the way, I don't even play cross over in PSX MvC1 although I have the game. To me, here's how it works... Arcade/DC versions of MvC1= Real competition PSX MvC1= Used for Combo Exhibitions only (IMO ) The trade off for the missing tag-team featured from the Original MvC1 game on PSX is the silly EX Cancel feature. You kind of do cheap (not as in "unfair" but sort of cheesy) combo with normal hits > special move > Super > Another Super > another super or normal hits > Special move > Super > Team Super. Posted by sickeness on 10:22:2001 11:19 AM: Don't listen to that War_Destroyer guy he sucks ass, I played him before and like all he does is pick 2 war machines and shoots stuff at ya he doesn't even know how to do combos and shit!!! He's a total scrub who doesn't even know how to play mvc1, if you want real advice go ask someone who actually knows how to play this game like Erik Perez or something............. Posted by War_Destroyer on 10:22:2001 07:11 PM: quote: if you want real advice go ask someone who actually knows how to play this game like Erik Perez or something............. I try to pattern my style like his....but I wonder why you never see us at the same place at the same time. Posted by Bernie on 10:22:2001 08:51 PM: quote: Originally posted by strider_hien After experimenting around with this Reset thing (computer on auto-block) i noticed 2 things. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I did the chun-li thing with the delayed air super, and most of the time they block it, but 1/10 times, they don't. Which is kinda weird. I also tried the strider combo you put, and sometimes they block it. Kinda weird eh? Oh well, i'm not gonna spend 3 years figuring it out, haha Actually, as silly as this sounds, trying uncombos on the computer isn't an accurate test. The reason is becuase the computer tends to "cheat" (lack of a better word) and is able to block the attempt most of the time, which you found out. That's why I suggested to try it out against another person, as for some reason, they aren't able to block in that same situation during a vs match. I'll be damned if I know why, though. Trust me, it's doesn't take 3 years to figure these combos out. It's not all that important to know because of how good Strider is already without uncombos, but it's just something to make him that much better. Just remember that the computer cheats, like it does in every other fighting game. Posted by kajin on 10:22:2001 10:48 PM: could you tell me how to do gambits infinite... which strider is better??MvC1 or MvC2?? Posted by Spider-Dan on 10:23:2001 12:04 AM: Let's not even get into whether or not mt is "better" than any of the US players in MVC1. There is simply no data to support that he knows how to play the game competitively at all. (The only data for japanese players vs USA at all is the japanese players that got wasted in MVC1 at B5.) That is not to say that he sucks, but there is certainly no evidence to support the claim that the Japanese are better than the US in any Marvel game, period. I played against two Japanese players in XSF at B5 (LiquidMetal and someone else) and beat them convincingly. It would be just as silly for US players to insist that Valle is better than Onuki in A2, or Choi is better than Daigo [Umehara] in SF3:NG. There is simply no evidence to support that, and the performances shown in the closest games indicates exactly the opposite. re: "uncombos"- "Uncombo" is a term that someone coined (it might have been me, I don't remember) to describe the combometer's property of resetting a few frames before the combo actually ends (i.e. before you can block). Specifically, that means that although the combo counter thinks the combo is over (and therefore the damage scaling resets) you still can't block for a few frames. The most common examples, as noted, are Strider's aircombo into DP+P and Chun's aircombo into super. Posted by War_Destroyer on 10:23:2001 07:08 AM: quote: Originally posted by Spider-Dan The only data for japanese players vs USA at all is the japanese players that got wasted in MVC1 at B5. Spoken like a true American. Posted by beta on 10:24:2001 11:30 AM: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ... quote: Originally posted by War_Destroyer Who, besides you, considers him the best? What a coincidence! I do that same combo on all teams! Can you do the wolverine's infinite locking down GWM and WM together? I really doubt it, since even Eddie Lee never did it. Why don't you explain the frames to us so we can confirm with mt if you're telling the true? Posted by beta on 10:24:2001 11:45 AM: quote: Originally posted by War_Destroyer Wow, since when did teaching stuff to Viscant make you know more than everyone in the US. Furthermore, when did how much you know determine your skill in the game. This is a ridiculous standard to mark the skill of US players (including myself), and an even more ridiculous statement in general. First of all, he was the first to brought up extended throws(which i don't think anybody at the US has ever done effectively, even today) , wavedashes(he explained MvC1 wavedashes way before people would usre it at Mvc2), wavedashes back(all of it is part of the TT) , crouch cancels to get frame advantage and useful GBs with every char , just from the top of my head. Other japanese players saids that he have the best execution of the entire Japan, and that's why he can keep up with the best japanese Mvc2 players even wothout assists or the top tier(playing MvC1, in fact). Since most of this stuff are things that eddie lee didn't know at Mvc1 time(he's teh US champ, agreed?) and mt has the best execution/reflexes in japan(who everyones considers to be the best place for execution) I, among with the japanese players and most of the srk forums, can't admit that someone here would be able to beat him. Plus, he knows US tactics, and US don't know TT angles. Now, imagine that you're playing against him. You start your tactics and he gots TT angles(of course he'll got the angles cause since you don't know where they are, you can't dodge it). Now, you'll be throwed from any move that you try, and if anything goes wrong to him(which doesn't happen according to teh japanese) you'll still be playing the best blocker and thrower of Japan, all games. I don't think you can win against something you don't know, specially if teh opps knows your tsctics. And the TT has hundreds of angles, by the pixels of the game, so if you adapt to one, in the first match, he'll have like other 400 to do on you for the last 5 or 10 matches, if you don't give up early. I don't see which possible advantage you could have against him, specially since our best players(Art and Eddie) had no idea about mt's stuff So, about stuff you know, he's the best About pure skills(execution and reflexes), he's japanese best, which most considers world's best. About vs you, he knows US tactics, you have no idea about the TT(which is considered teh hardest thing ever figured it out at japan, so you won't get it in a couple of games, BTW), so his chances would be way better even if he hadn't the best reflexes in Japan. I don't see how you can view yourself as better than him Posted by beta on 10:24:2001 11:53 AM: Originally posted by Spider-Dan Let's not even get into whether or not mt is "better" than any of the US players in MVC1. There is simply no data to support that he knows how to play the game competitively at all. (The only data for japanese players vs USA at all is the japanese players that got wasted in MVC1 at B5.) These players are combo players, it's the same as you bringing Jmaes Chen to fight mt representing US. There are no data from US players beating mt too That is not to say that he sucks, but there is certainly no evidence to support the claim that the Japanese are better than the US in any Marvel game, period. I played against two Japanese players in XSF at B5 (LiquidMetal and someone else) and beat them convincingly. comboplayers, would james chen beat them? would you beat mt? It would be just as silly for US players to insist that Valle is better than Onuki in A2, or Choi is better than Daigo [Umehara] in SF3:NG. There is simply no evidence to support that, and the performances shown in the closest games indicates exactly the opposite. But you heard about the tactics from Japan, and how advanced they are. It's like MvC2 japan vs usa, most japanese players didn't even knew US best tactics, so they have no chance at all, and this is what happens to Mvc1. If only mt knows the TT, and he applies it since teh beginning of the match, how will you beat it using stuff that he expects you to do?Ho wwill you attack if any move that you try will get thrown, and if you don't you'll get thrown too? I can't say that he's the best or anything, because only playing will prove it, but looking at all the info we have about mt and teh uS players he clearly seems to be the favorite re: "uncombos"- "Uncombo" is a term that someone coined (it might have been me, I don't remember) to describe the combometer's property of resetting a few frames before the combo actually ends (i.e. before you can block). Specifically, that means that although the combo counter thinks the combo is over (and therefore the damage scaling resets) you still can't block for a few frames. The most common examples, as noted, are Strider's aircombo into DP+P and Chun's aircombo into super. Does this works at MvC2 too? Posted by soujiroten on 10:24:2001 04:51 PM: Sigh... it's cuz of posts like this that make these forums full of scrubbies. Get off mt's nuts. Seriously. Sure, he may be good. He might be the best player of MvC ever. So what? Just because he mentioned something a while back does not make it law, nor canon. Don't expect anyone to swallow something just because you 'heard mt say it was true'. "But wait! He can do this, this and this! He *MUST* be right!". 10 million lemmings can't be wrong, can they? Experiment and try for yourself. Don't restrict yourself to tier listings and what people on the forums say is best. Sure, Wolverine's throws might outrange everything in the game. Think a little, though. You're not going to find out every angle and every setup for wolverine throws. Not a chance, unless you sit there with a buddy and practice 24/7 for the next year or so. Try other stuff. There are strategies yet to be discovered. --SJ Posted by War_Destroyer on 10:24:2001 07:17 PM: quote: Originally posted by soujiroten Sigh... it's cuz of posts like this that make these forums full of scrubbies. Get off mt's nuts. Seriously. Sure, he may be good. He might be the best player of MvC ever. So what? Just because he mentioned something a while back does not make it law, nor canon. Don't expect anyone to swallow something just because you 'heard mt say it was true'. "But wait! He can do this, this and this! He *MUST* be right!". 10 million lemmings can't be wrong, can they? Experiment and try for yourself. Don't restrict yourself to tier listings and what people on the forums say is best. Sure, Wolverine's throws might outrange everything in the game. Think a little, though. You're not going to find out every angle and every setup for wolverine throws. Not a chance, unless you sit there with a buddy and practice 24/7 for the next year or so. Try other stuff. There are strategies yet to be discovered. --SJ Nicely put...I seriously think I can give ANYONE in this game a run for their money, no matter what advanced 'frame skipping, Anti-U.S. tactics' they got. Regarding mt, I trust what I see, not what I hear, and I've never seen a 'stategy' that has shut me down. Posted by KungfuJoe on 10:26:2001 02:38 AM: quote: Originally posted by beta If he's considered the best because of the circunstances when he came out with the TT. He went in a topic with Viscant and start explaining perfectly, in details, how and why the TT would beat DWM, RV and the other top tiers(knowing all american strong tactics already). He brought up the lockdown inf and ipressed Viscant(and much more myself pretty well) . From my understanding, with the TT you fight for possible positions(special frame distances) taht are all over the screen. If you get one of this positions, and amazing reflexes, you just make the right paths controlling the relative positioning of your opp and Wolvie will throw everything that is tried at him, including thing slike IM's knee dive or RV's qcf+P. The way that the few japanese players who plays close to mt's level tries to escape this is to develop their games without entering any of the positions and angles where Wolverine's throw becames unbeatable and it seems that, if you don't know the angles, you simply can't win this fight. Someone(I don't remember if it was Viscant)said that it seemed like playing cable without knowing about the AHVB startup, practically hopeless. I think that's why people around here start considering him the best. If he can teach lots of stuff to Viscant, a mature US MvC1 tourney player that saw all the other tops play(so he knows the game from eddie and arturo) he clearly knows more than anyone at US. PLus, I saw japanese players talking about his almighty execution/reflexes, where nobody there chooses mags against him(MvC2, which he barely plays), because he really can block/tech hit everything , so I don't think he would be beaten by execution too. I'm just trying to explain why he's considered the best. Like you said, we can't really know, it's all speculation without a world tourney or something, and even that most players are worse now than before. Just so everybody can knows, according to what I read, the Mvc2 japanese team doesn't play MvC1, they just like doing combos and stuff, but don't understand the TT and barely knows how to deal with DWM and other top tactics. I think I read everythread about teh TT that came up.(opinions from mt, viscant, spiderdan, kdcmarvel, chocobo and more...) so I have a pretty good idea of what can be done with it, at least in theory. If anyone wants to ask something about it, I might be able to answer you. Just my 2 cents interesting indeed Posted by Combo Master on 10:26:2001 05:24 AM: Damn! And when I use every strategy I have for MvC1 against my friends, they get all pissed and they say I have no life...wtf? If you don't spend time practicing, how the hell am I (me speaking in 3rd person) supposed to improve? I know this is a little off the subject, but if someone knows so many tactics and all this angle shit, you would have to spend hours, days/nights, months and years playing MvC1. This is what I do and my friends get mad for it. I just don't get it... ! Posted by Spider-Dan on 10:26:2001 07:26 AM: quote: Originally posted by beta Originally posted by Spider-Dan It would be just as silly for US players to insist that Valle is better than Onuki in A2, or Choi is better than Daigo [Umehara] in SF3:NG. There is simply no evidence to support that, and the performances shown in the closest games indicates exactly the opposite. But you heard about the tactics from Japan, and how advanced they are. It's like MvC2 japan vs usa, most japanese players didn't even knew US best tactics, so they have no chance at all, and this is what happens to Mvc1. If only mt knows the TT, and he applies it since teh beginning of the match, how will you beat it using stuff that he expects you to do?Ho wwill you attack if any move that you try will get thrown, and if you don't you'll get thrown too? I can't say that he's the best or anything, because only playing will prove it, but looking at all the info we have about mt and teh uS players he clearly seems to be the favorite To be more specific, I have heard about one tactic from Japan. [TT] I have seen no evidence whatsoever that TT can be successfully done against a top-level MVC1 player. This is not to say whether or not TT works, but whether it is PRACTICAL. Frankly I find it hard to believe that one can predict every normal (for example RV c.strong instead of c.fierce) and counter-throw it. But I won't totally discount the possibility until I see it. mt certainly understands what he's talking about... but so does white in MVC2 (in general), and he did not come close to winning B5. mt is the best Japanese MVC1 player, white is the best Japanese MVC2 player. See my point? Second, while I'll give you that the Japanese MVC1 players at B5 may have been combo players, and that's why they did so poorly (relatively), their responses at B5 (according to Choi) were more along the lines of amazement, something like "We have never seen anything like this before; if Japanese people could see tapes of the game being played at this level MVC would be one of the most popular games in Japan" (or something to that effect). Now, while I'll give you that a combo player might lose to a strategy player, they certainly should have seen the strategies being used at B5 a LONG time ago (there was nothing REMOTELY new shown at B5 MVC1). If they have even *watched* Japanese MVC1 tournaments (presumably ones that mt was in) and they haven't seen these 2+ year old strategies, I would SERIOUSLY doubt that mt is used to fighting the level of competition that is/was in the US, and therefore the TT might become that much less effective in actual play. quote: re: "uncombos"- "Uncombo" is a term that someone coined (it might have been me, I don't remember) to describe the combometer's property of resetting a few frames before the combo actually ends (i.e. before you can block). Specifically, that means that although the combo counter thinks the combo is over (and therefore the damage scaling resets) you still can't block for a few frames. The most common examples, as noted, are Strider's aircombo into DP+P and Chun's aircombo into super. Does this works at MvC2 too? Yes, though the timing is much harder (you have to actually time it, because there aren't any moves with the perfect amount of delay built in, like the above two listed in MVC1). Posted by War_Destroyer on 10:26:2001 08:43 AM: Combo Freaks?!?!?! I love playing combo freaks! I beat 'em w/GWM on a regular basis. BTW, people can't even block as fast as I can strike, let alone throw me as fast as I can strike...always?!?!?!?! The same could be said for any SF game, the more I think of it, the more ridiculous it sounds. BTW, my 'strategy' of GWM beating every Red Venom on the planet that sounds "outrageous" has yet to be proven wrong. Posted by Spider-Dan on 10:26:2001 11:16 PM: quote: Originally posted by War_Destroyer Combo Freaks?!?!?! I love playing combo freaks! I beat 'em w/GWM on a regular basis. BTW, people can't even block as fast as I can strike, let alone throw me as fast as I can strike...always?!?!?!?! The same could be said for any SF game, the more I think of it, the more ridiculous it sounds. BTW, my 'strategy' of GWM beating every Red Venom on the planet that sounds "outrageous" has yet to be proven wrong. Erik, you've never fought a good Red Venom. You didn't fight mine at CMVCC and I don't think you fought Arturo's at B5 (I think you had already been eliminated by Strider/Wolvie). I hope you are not referring to beating my extremely rusty double Venom team at B5; I have not been good at that game for 2 years, and even when I was, I certainly would not pick normal Venom as my partner to beat a DWM team if I was serious about winning. (I was surprised I won a game using DV vs your DWM, that match should be 2 vs 1) Posted by DarkBuu on 10:27:2001 06:22 AM: I was wondering what did TT actually stand for and if there is anywhere i can read some more stuff about it. I was never really on the MvsC1 scene so I dont know a lot about its strategies. Posted by soujiroten on 10:27:2001 06:40 AM: TT, if you hadn't guessed, is the semi-mythical 'Throw Tactics' used in japan, which pretty much said that Wolverine was godly in MvC, because he could counter-throw *EVERYTHING* (literally), if done properly. Here's a simple example of TT (in CvS1). Pick normal Balrog. Turn up computer difficulty, and do a rush punch against anyone. You can be thrown out of the rush punch. It's difficult to pull off, but it does work. The way people (like mt) did it was pretty much by trying to throw *everything* and everyone in every situation possible. Air throws, ground throws, gauging pixel distances, etc. It's tough to beat, but requires like a million hours of testing at least one character (in this case Wolverine) against every single other character in every single other situation. --SJ Posted by War_Destroyer on 10:27:2001 07:27 AM: quote: Originally posted by Spider-Dan Erik, you've never fought a good Red Venom. Such bold statements from someone who plays me once a year. I've plowed through many great (cheap?!?) Red Venoms, including yours even back in the day, and at B5. (not meaning to insult you, but such a statement of my inexperience against good Red Venom players is so false, it's ridiculous.) It's unfortunate I didn't get a chance at Art's Red Venom. Then my little comment about GWM vs. RV could be accepted (or denied?!?) nationwide. It's as good as fact to me until I see my GWM fall to an "infinite" based character like Venom. Posted by cc on 10:27:2001 04:44 PM: quote: Originally posted by War_Destroyer Nicely put...I seriously think I can give ANYONE in this game a run for their money, no matter what advanced 'frame skipping, Anti-U.S. tactics' they got. Regarding mt, I trust what I see, not what I hear, and I've never seen a 'stategy' that has shut me down. Please don't take, but didn't eddie lee and arturo won all the big past tourneys? What I read is that TT isn't a tactic as we call it. It's just that mt controls space all th etime keeping wolverine at the best spots, like we play mags at MvC2, I think. But Wolverine's throws are unbeateable at the right points so he would be much better than mags. Posted by cc on 10:27:2001 04:54 PM: [QUOTE]Originally posted by Spider-Dan To be more specific, I have heard about one tactic from Japan. [TT] I have seen no evidence whatsoever that TT can be successfully done against a top-level MVC1 player. This is not to say whether or not TT works, but whether it is PRACTICAL. Frankly I find it hard to believe that one can predict every normal (for example RV c.strong instead of c.fierce) and counter-throw it. I think he doens't predict it. At the righta ngle he simply starts the throw while getting cose and you'll be thrown doesn't amtter if you do the move or not But I won't totally discount the possibility until I see it. mt certainly understands what he's talking about... but so does white in MVC2 (in general), and he did not come close to winning B5. mt is the best Japanese MVC1 player, white is the best Japanese MVC2 player. See my point? But it's very different. White didn't brought any unknown tactic/strat to US(not a dominant one). mt posting stuff about our main tactics(like DWM) and how the TT works against it. mt has the bets reflexes from all Japan, and can play every game. I heard he was like #6 at MvC2 there without even playing the game, just using Strider/War Machine/someone else and playing with no assists. That's impressive. And white did very well at B5. I think he's at the same level as soem of the best american players(lost to justin and valle only). It would be like lose to art and eddie at MvC1. Second, while I'll give you that the Japanese MVC1 players at B5 may have been combo players, and that's why they did so poorly (relatively), their responses at B5 (according to Choi) were more along the lines of amazement, something like "We have never seen anything like this before; if Japanese people could see tapes of the game being played at this level MVC would be one of the most popular games in Japan" (or something to that effect). Now, while I'll give you that a combo player might lose to a strategy player, they certainly should have seen the strategies being used at B5 a LONG time ago (there was nothing REMOTELY new shown at B5 MVC1). If they have even *watched* Japanese MVC1 tournaments (presumably ones that mt was in) and they haven't seen these 2+ year old strategies, I would SERIOUSLY doubt that mt is used to fighting the level of competition that is/was in the US, and therefore the TT might become that much less effective in actual play. I don't think so. I don't know how are the torneys there, and if there are separated areas or whatever, but mt was debating all the intrincacies about DWM, Strider and RV teams with Viscant and kdcmarvel back then. Plus, when MvC2 came out, mt continued developing the TT, so it might be unknown to several japanese players I just like to point out that mt never saids he was the best or anything, he doesn't seems cocky( like white ) at all. So I hope nobody get a bad impresion of him because he's help it's very cool at srk. Posted by cc on 10:27:2001 05:04 PM: quote: Originally posted by War_Destroyer Combo Freaks?!?!?! I love playing combo freaks! I beat 'em w/GWM on a regular basis. BTW, people can't even block as fast as I can strike, let alone throw me as fast as I can strike...always?!?!?!?! The same could be said for any SF game, the more I think of it, the more ridiculous it sounds. BTW, my 'strategy' of GWM beating every Red Venom on the planet that sounds "outrageous" has yet to be proven wrong. You know wolverine can do an infinite on GWM, right? And that mt isn't a combo freak, right? I agree with beta when he says that mt would be the favorite because he knows all the US game and uS players don't know anything about his game. Art could surprise him with Hulk(I don't know), but mt could adapt to it. Now how Art would adapt to the TT that has 3456772 angles to avoid. And even players like kdcmarvel who knew about the TT before doesn't have the same practice with it as mt, so I think he would be the favorite against everyone. spiderdan Remember that we shouldn't be overconfident about our skills vs other countries at any game. Nismor got 5th at B5, and Coy got 3rd at SHGL. How can we know that there aren't better MvC players at Japan, Mexixo, Honk Kong, Brazil, Singapore or whatever place we heard of competition. As Japanese needs to respect our players in the games they think we can't play at the same level(we did a good game at ST US vs Japan and own the B5 tourney for it) we need to respect players that we didn't see yet, specially when they have such a strong curriculum as mt does. Posted by War_Destroyer on 10:28:2001 12:17 AM: quote: Originally posted by cc You know wolverine can do an infinite on GWM, right? Really?!?!?!? But Gambit has an infinite too. That makes him better than Wolverine? *extremely sarcastic comment* Having an infinite don't mean shit to someone who doesn't fall into (for) them. Posted by kajin on 10:28:2001 12:19 AM: do you think we could get back onto the thread topic?? just a question Posted by Spider-Dan on 10:28:2001 07:40 PM: quote: Originally posted by War_Destroyer Such bold statements from someone who plays me once a year. Such bold statements from me? I've never played you in MVC1 before B5, and you've never played any good Red Venoms, yet you're the one making the claim to have beaten every Red Venom on the planet. quote: I've plowed through many great (cheap?!?) Red Venoms, including yours even back in the day, and at B5. (not meaning to insult you, but such a statement of my inexperience against good Red Venom players is so false, it's ridiculous.) Who did you beat? There are/were only three real Red Venoms in the nation (me, image, Arturo) and of those, image was the least successful. (He placed several spots below me in every tournnament we were both in, at least three of them) I guess because you beat image, now you own every Red Venom? LOL. quote: It's unfortunate I didn't get a chance at Art's Red Venom. Then my little comment about GWM vs. RV could be accepted (or denied?!?) nationwide. It's as good as fact to me until I see my GWM fall to an "infinite" based character like Venom. fact: Your DWM lost a game to my double Venom team at B5. Since that match is such a washout, what happened? (Note that *I'm* not the one claiming that I beat all DWMs, you're the one claiming that you can't lose to RV.) The statement that you cannot lose to Red Venom is clearly false. Note: as far as I'm concerned, B5 was too far after the fact to count for anything, but even during our respective primes, you never played against the originator of RV (me) or the best RV on the east coast (Arturo). P.S. Your claims that you invented DWM are quite funny. Eddie Lee was using that team months before anyone else. Posted by War_Destroyer on 10:28:2001 08:16 PM: quote: Originally posted by Spider-Dan There are/were only three real Red Venoms in the nation. Do I even need to respond to this? There are only 3 good Magneto's in MVC-2...(see how silly it sounds?) quote: Originally posted by Spider-Dan Your DWM lost a game to my double Venom team at B5. Don't exagerate, I eliminated you. GWM is superior to RV, not invincible. quote: Originally posted by Spider-Dan Note that *I'm* not the one claiming that I beat all DWMs, you're the one claiming that you can't lose to RV. Technically, in tourney play, I haven't. quote: Originally posted by Spider-Dan The statement that you cannot lose to Red Venom is clearly false. Wow, I said I CAN'T lose?!?!? Why didn't you quote this??? Again, please don't exagerate. quote: Originally posted by Spider-Dan B5 was too far after the fact to count for anything, but even during our respective primes, you never played against the originator of RV (me) or the best RV on the east coast (Arturo). It's unfortunate I didn't get a chance at Art's Red Venom. Then my little comment about GWM vs. RV could be accepted (or denied?!?) nationwide. (I'm quoting myself here BTW) quote: Originally posted by Spider-Dan P.S. Your claims that you invented DWM are quite funny. Eddie Lee was using that team months before anyone else. Well, before you get ahead of yourself, yet again; did you know that I entered tourney play relatively late for this game? Were you at SHGL watching the exact moment I used this team? Even better yet, were you watching me use this team before I had even heard of SHGL? Of course not, but lets ignore me, were you watching everyone else? (You claimed Lee used the DWM team before "anyone else") It's blatent statements like these that makes your claims hold less and less wieght. Dan, I respect you as a player, but all I did was make a "Stategy" statement about GWM vs. RV, and I think it rubbed you the wrong way. Look past such things before you make statements like these next time. Posted by Combo Master on 10:29:2001 12:01 AM: How can Red Venom be good when a simple level 1 super could eat up 50% of his life? I don't get it! Please explain! Posted by soujiroten on 10:29:2001 12:16 AM: How can God Rugal or Shin Gouki be good if they take huge amounts of damage? Simple. Because their offensive options are much greater than defensive. Red Venom can deal huge amounts of damage to any character (with the single dubious exception of Gold War Machine), thanks to his infinites, guard break, huge throw range and other options available. The added damage-taking encourages excellence. If you don't get hit, you don't have to worry about how much damage you take. Thus Red Venom players are gambling. The Risk is great. One combo can do 80% of your life. The Rewards are greater. Red Venom can kill 90% of the cast by himself. --SJ Posted by Combo Master on 10:29:2001 12:20 AM: All these technicalities confuse me!!...lol Posted by BshidoHEAT on 10:29:2001 01:01 AM: Never knew War Machine was a top tier... back in the day when it when it was popular, I always used him because (he was underrated) and I was good with him. And one time I posted something about War Machine being good in an AOL MB. And people just laughed.. I am glad that WM is a top tier in this game, he deserves it. (BTW, I thought Chun Li was good in MvC1 ) Posted by Spider-Dan on 10:29:2001 01:28 AM: quote: Originally posted by War_Destroyer Do I even need to respond to this? There are only 3 good Magneto's in MVC-2...(see how silly it sounds?) I can bring up several quotes of people saying that there are 3 or less good Spirals in the US. (many people just say one, Duc's) quote: Don't exagerate, I eliminated you. GWM is superior to RV, not invincible. My point was that while you claim that your anti-RV strategies with GWM "beat every RV on the planet," a) you've not faced the best RVs in their prime and b) I certainly gave you a competitive match with dead weight on my team (normal Venom vs DWM can hardly be classfied as anything but dead weight). Let me reemphasize that I'm not trying to brag that I beat you one game in a tournament or anything, I still lost the set. But before you start talking about how DWM beats RV so badly, you might want to consider that RV won that tournament and DWM didn't. There is certainly no evidence to support the assertion that you would have beaten Art had you played him. quote: Wow, I said I CAN'T lose?!?!? Why didn't you quote this??? quote: BTW, my 'strategy' of GWM beating every Red Venom on the planet that sounds "outrageous" has yet to be proven wrong. You hadn't even PLAYED the two best RVs *at all* during all of MVC1 life span (that is, prior to MVC2's release). quote: Well, before you get ahead of yourself, yet again; did you know that I entered tourney play relatively late for this game? You entered "tourney play" for MVC1 at the same time (or earlier) as everyone else in Cali; at CMVCC in Sacramento, which you won. There were no major MVC1 tournaments prior to that. quote: Were you at SHGL watching the exact moment I used this team? Even better yet, were you watching me use this team before I had even heard of SHGL? Of course not, but lets ignore me, were you watching everyone else? (You claimed Lee used the DWM team before "anyone else") It's blatent statements like these that makes your claims hold less and less wieght. Eddie Lee was using this team at SHGL in mid-late 98 (I want to say August, whenever the 2I tournament that he won was); I don't know how much earlier he was using it at CTF. In any case, at the time that he was playing DWM and I was playing RV (I was also playing RV in smaller tournaments by 9/98), there was simply no one else saying that they were anything but trash. While I can't prove/disprove when you started using them, I can certainly say that from everyone that I've talked to (including so.cali players) no one saw DWM used as a serious team until Eddie did it at SHGL. quote: Dan, I respect you as a player, but all I did was make a "Stategy" statement about GWM vs. RV, and I think it rubbed you the wrong way. Look past such things before you make statements like these next time. Erik, I took notice of the statement because I am/was an RV player, and while I would have liked to play you when the game was current (especially at CMVCC) I never got the chance. However, the statement you made (quoted above) looked to be a "cheap shot" based on B5 MVC1. You know as well as I do that B5 was well after all of us stopped playing (I doubt you would have lost to Striderine in your prime). Posted by C-Royd on 10:29:2001 02:14 AM: quote: Originally posted by strider_hien After experimenting around with this Reset thing (computer on auto-block) i noticed 2 things. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I did the chun-li thing with the delayed air super, and most of the time they block it, but 1/10 times, they don't. Which is kinda weird. I also tried the strider combo you put, and sometimes they block it. Kinda weird eh? Oh well, i'm not gonna spend 3 years figuring it out, haha the computer can block uncombos. uncombos work only on human players. try doing strider's air combo lp,lk,mp,mk, jp ghram, and computer will block it Posted by War_Destroyer on 10:29:2001 08:09 AM: quote: Originally posted by Spider-Dan I can bring up several quotes of people saying that there are 3 or less good Spirals in the US. (many people just say one, Duc's) I've played many good RV over the course of MVC-1 lifespan, period. From this experience, regardless of the two I didn't play, I make my claims. GMW > RV quote: Originally posted by Spider-Dan My point was that while you claim that your anti-RV strategies with GWM "beat every RV on the planet," a) you've not faced the best RVs in their prime... GWM is still superior to RV. Not my GWM vs. anyone esles' RV, but the characters in general. (i.e. a non-falling vs. Triple damage.) It's freakin' obvious. You know it, I know it. Of course just anyone using GWM won't win everyones RV on the planet, the statement is just emphasizing the obvious disadvantage RV has in such a fight. Get it? quote: Originally posted by Spider-Dan I certainly gave you a competitive match with dead weight on my team (normal Venom vs DWM can hardly be classfied as anything but dead weight). Ah...scapegoat time. I got two comments for this, one good and one bad. One, your (reg.) Venom is nothing less than dead weight. In your prime you played him, so no excuses. And two, "competitive" is a relative term. quote: Originally posted by Spider-Dan But before you start talking about how DWM beats RV so badly, you might want to consider that RV won that tournament and DWM didn't. This changes nothing in the character advantage of GWM vs. RV. Is Cable better than Sentinel 'cause someone won a tourney with him? Of course not. And yes, I'll say it again, GWM beats RV badly. quote: Originally posted by Spider-Dan There is certainly no evidence to support the assertion that you would have beaten Art had you played him. Of course not!!! But statements like these work both ways, it's a waste to say such things (There's no support saying he'd beat me.) It's pretty redundant...don't waste your breathe. quote: Originally posted by Spider-Dan You hadn't even PLAYED the two best RVs *at all* during all of MVC1 life span (that is, prior to MVC2's release). If you and the rest of the world consider those two particular RV the best, than no I have not. But again REGARDLESS, in general GWM > RV. That's all I am pointing out. quote: Originally posted by Spider-Dan Eddie Lee was using this team [WM/GWM] at SHGL in mid-late 98 (I want to say August, whenever the 2I tournament that he won was); I don't know how much earlier he was using it at CTF. In any case, at the time that he was playing DWM and I was playing RV (I was also playing RV in smaller tournaments by 9/98), there was simply no one else saying that they were anything but trash. Not one person said they were good? Should of asked me, back then? quote: Originally posted by Spider-Dan While I can't prove/disprove when you started using them, I can certainly say that from everyone that I've talked to (including so.cali players) no one saw DWM used as a serious team until Eddie did it at SHGL. I'll break things down to you from my point of view. I'd discovered SHGL in MVC-1 life span, in search of competition. (Okay, lookin' to hand out beatdowns.) During my time of playing at GL, I saw no WM/GWM teams. Almost no one even picked GWM, back then. I played this team there (off of my own discovery BTW) and used it in tourney play from there on. From my experience, I'd made quite a name of that team, which, of course, can't say I inveted, but played off of my own discovery. quote: Originally posted by Spider-Dan I would have liked to play you when the game was current (especially at CMVCC) I never got the chance. If this is the tourney in Sac, I remember playing you there. You were the first person that ever Jab-throw-jab-throw my GWM, before I had knew how to escape it. You had me in quite a panic that I distinctly remember. quote: Originally posted by Spider-Dan However, the statement you made (quoted above) looked to be a "cheap shot" based on B5 MVC1. Not at all...only an observation about GWM and RV that I was sharing with a poster who needed help. Posted by Combo Master on 10:31:2001 04:07 AM: Can anyone go well with Chun-Li? My current partner options are: 1)Capt Commando 2)Venom (original, I hate red venom) 3)Ryu 4)Wolverine 5)Gambit Posted by War_Destroyer on 10:31:2001 04:28 AM: quote: Originally posted by Combo Master Can anyone go well with Chun-Li? My current partner options are: 1)Capt Commando 2)Venom (original, I hate red venom) 3)Ryu 4)Wolverine 5)Gambit I recommend Wolverine. Posted by Combo Master on 11:01:2001 08:54 AM: Cool, thanks! You have a team analysis for this? Chun-Li & Wolverine+??? helper (pick a good one) What I need: Team Analysis Posted by luigi on 11:02:2001 02:54 AM: quote: Originally posted by War_Destroyer Really?!?!?!? But Gambit has an infinite too. That makes him better than Wolverine? *extremely sarcastic comment* Having an infinite don't mean shit to someone who doesn't fall into (for) them. Gambit hasn't an infinite on DWM. Nobody has, except for TT Wolverine. And BTW, mt doesn't use the infinite, he wins with the TT. I'm not saying that I'm better than you or anything, but you clearly demonstrated that you don't know what TT is and that you never saw Wolvie's lockdown, and still expects to do good against mt. Then you demontrate that you never won against Art or Eddie Lee(always the best US player), that you lost to Spiderdan's RV with your GWM, but still you think your GWM is unbeatable and that you can take this guys? You can be good(far away from "best") but you're looking pathetic right now. Posted by War_Destroyer on 11:02:2001 04:28 AM: quote: Originally posted by luigi Gambit hasn't an infinite on DWM. Nobody has, except for TT Wolverine. I know gambit doesn't have an infinite on DWM; do you know what sarcasm means? quote: Originally posted by luigi And BTW, mt doesn't use the infinite, he wins with the TT. I never said he did. You really love this TT strategy, don't you. And, assume I have nothing in my repertoire to fight such things. I guess having all those tourneys under my belt in Southern Cali don't mean nothing to the ignorant. (BTW, I've only lost one MVC tourney, of the several I've played in...guess which one.) I think I have more up my sleeve than you give me credit for, but then again, you're running your mouth about someone you don't know, so should not be taken seriously. quote: Originally posted by luigi I'm not saying that I'm better than you or anything Of course not. quote: Originally posted by luigi ...but you clearly demonstrated that you don't know what TT is and that you never saw Wolvie's lockdown, and still expects to do good against mt. Though it's not impossible, I highly doubt someone can know and react to my every move perfectly. If you ever saw me play (or even had the sense to ask someone about me), you might think the same thing. That's what I expect. quote: Originally posted by luigi Then you demontrate that you never won against Art or Eddie Lee(always the best US player) I've never played Art, and am not sure if I've ever played Eddie before, but statements like these go both ways...ie. "they've never beat me."(Personally, I hate these type of statements, people use them to make their arguement look better, when in fact they have no meaning. I apoligize for the sheer idiodicy of such a statement but you said I demonstated that I have not won them.) quote: Originally posted by luigi that you lost to Spiderdan's RV with your GWM, but still you think your GWM is unbeatable and that you can take this guys? I did? Wow, my team is no longer invincible then, now is it. (sarcasm, yet again) I won the 2-3 of that, so, no loss on the set. (Not braggin' against Dan, but this person seems not to know.) quote: Originally posted by luigi but still you think your GWM is unbeatable and that you can take this guys? I don't believe my DWM team is unbeatable?!?!?...you do... quote: Originally posted by luigi You can be good(far away from "best") but you're looking pathetic right now. Far away from the best, eh? Do you know who you are talking to? I won the last major MVC tourney in N.Cali before the B5 (during MVC prime, not after), and several in Southern Cali (including SHGL). Tell me, luigi, how do you get closer to the best, by accepting defeat to TT before I play it? Sorry, my lips aren't so willing to pucker up as fast as yours. I love it when people run their mouths when they have no idea of what's really going on. Can you taste your laces, yet? Cause you're "looking pathetic" based on how ignorant of who and what you speak of. Posted by teammember003 on 11:08:2001 04:31 AM: [QUOTE]Originally posted by War_Destroyer I know gambit doesn't have an infinite on DWM; do you know what sarcasm means? You did a wrong sarcasm then, çause you didn't compare anything related to what he saids I never said he did. You really love this TT strategy, don't you. And, assume I have nothing in my repertoire to fight such things. I guess having all those tourneys under my belt in Southern Cali don't mean nothing to the ignorant. (BTW, I've only lost one MVC tourney, of the several I've played in...guess which one.) I think I have more up my sleeve than you give me credit for, but then again, you're running your mouth about someone you don't know, so should not be taken seriously. I think you're very good, but Eddie Lee was always the MvC1 national champ, winning all the big tournyes. When he isn't there, art takes the pot. MvC1 is an EC game, at least inside the US(mt is mt) Though it's not impossible, I highly doubt someone can know and react to my every move perfectly. If you ever saw me play (or even had the sense to ask someone about me), you might think the same thing. That's what I expect. People that saw mt until now seems more impressed then people that saw you, and he knows way more than everyone here I've never played Art, and am not sure if I've ever played Eddie before, but statements like these go both ways...ie. "they've never beat me."(Personally, I hate these type of statements, people use them to make their arguement look better, when in fact they have no meaning. I apoligize for the sheer idiodicy of such a statement but you said I demonstated that I have not won them.) If this was true, I could said "Justin never beat me" and we wouldn't knows who's better. But Justin is the b5 mvc2 champion, as eddie won all the big mvc1 tourneys before. not you Far away from the best, eh? Do you know who you are talking to? I won the last major MVC tourney in N.Cali before the B5 (during MVC prime, not after), and several in Southern Cali (including SHGL). Tell me, luigi, how do you get closer to the best, by accepting defeat to TT before I play it? Sorry, my lips aren't so willing to pucker up as fast as yours. I love it when people run their mouths when they have no idea of what's really going on. Can you taste your laces, yet? Cause you're "looking pathetic" based on how ignorant of who and what you speak of. Clever remarks but who you are means nothing against the US champ Eddie Lee (nowadays Art cause Eddie didn't came on time) and mt. Despite my little flames above I really came here to remember everyone that mt never saids anything cocky like "I'm the best "or "I'm unbeatable". This is just what people think. I know several people got mad at Justin just because EC people bragged about him, even Justin himself being humble. I hope nobody got mad at mt from comments made by other people. Posted by sickeness on 11:08:2001 04:45 AM: quote: Originally posted by teammember003 Clever remarks but who you are means nothing against the US champ Eddie Lee (nowadays Art cause Eddie didn't came on time) and mt. Ok well, Arturo or Eddie is the East Coast MvC1 champ mt is the "supposed" japanese champ and War_Destroyer is the West Coast champ How does this make him "nothing" against the other 2? Is he still "nothing" even though he placed 1st in EVERY southern cali mvc1 tournament during his prime? You obviously have never seen him play but you compare him to other players who you also have never seen play, actually nobody has seen mt play, how do you guys even know he is for real? Because he posts on a message board?. So I'm guessing your saying that even though he has never played mt or eddie lee, they are still better than him? How did you reach that conclusion? War obviously knows MvC1 alot better than YOU and almost every other player out there so I think it would be a good idea on your part to shutup and start showing some respect. Posted by hayato15 on 11:09:2001 04:55 AM: [QUOTE]Originally posted by sickeness Ok well, Arturo or Eddie is the East Coast MvC1 champ mt is the "supposed" japanese champ and War_Destroyer is the West Coast champ How does this make him "nothing" against the other 2? Is he still "nothing" even though he placed 1st in EVERY southern cali mvc1 tournament during his prime? You obviously have never seen him play but you compare him to other players who you also have never seen play, actually nobody has seen mt play, how do you guys even know he is for real? Because he posts on a message board?. So I'm guessing your saying that even though he has never played mt or eddie lee, they are still better than him? How did you reach that conclusion? War obviously knows MvC1 alot better than YOU and almost every other player out there so I think it would be a good idea on your part to shutup and start showing some respect. I don't know why you guys are trying to make mt look worse. Later we'll have people saying that Daigo or even Valle aren't for real, and srk is just a big joke. C'mon... I have a friend that has saw mt playing at Japan and has saw MvC1 at his best at US. He thinks mt is better. Plus, the top japanese players know mt's game too. He explained several things about MvC1 that proved to be true later at US(wavedash both sides, lockdown inf, TT and the others people mentioned above). Besides that, Eddie(not Arturo or Eddie) is the US champ. he won all teh big tourneys of MvC1, with players from all US. Arturo won B5(with players like War Destroyer, spiderdan and Viscant from WC) just because Eddie wasn't there. He's still easily the second at US. Did you ever knew about the previous MvC1 tourney results at US? If War Destroyer(and you!!!) can talk about how no RV in the world can take him out(which includes better players as Art, Eddie and mt, without playing them) teh other members have the right to write what they think too Posted by War_Destroyer on 11:09:2001 05:59 AM: quote: Originally posted by hayato15 If War Destroyer...can talk about how no RV in the world can take him out... Oh my, that IS a bold statement, isn't it. "I have yet to see a good RV consistly beat a good GWM" sounds more along the lines of something I'd say. But anyway... Posted by Combo Master on 11:09:2001 09:28 AM: We're never gonna get anywhere like this! Tell it like it is and GET OVER IT!! That goes for all of you regardless of what you people are talking about. Now..bye! Posted by gamedata on 11:10:2001 06:00 PM: quote: Originally posted by Combo Master We're never gonna get anywhere like this! Tell it like it is and GET OVER IT!! That goes for all of you regardless of what you people are talking about. Now..bye! You're right. So mt is considered the best in the world. Some US players thinks Eddie Lee(EC) is the one, some other consider War Destroyer(WC), Kdcmarvel(Brazil) or whoever has impressed them the most. So what? This means nothing. First, because nobody has played the entire world. We saw Golden Nismor(Hawaii) and JLK(Canada) surprising everyone at B5, as Coy(Mexico) doing the same at SHGL, so it's almost impossible to have a world champion with the community size right now. But more important, they never played each other. Take Duc and Valle, for example. They played MvC2 tourneys each fifteen days for more than a year and we still can't be sure who's the best one. Wong wons B5, but some people thinks Duc is better than him, or Shadyk is better than Valle, and nobody knows for sure. To have a real, accurate ranking, it would be necessary to have world leagues for each game, all the top players playing against each other, like the NBA. This isn't practical at all. If we barely can decide who's better at the games that are having constant big tourneys now, as MvC2, how can anyone point X or Y as the best MvC1 player, without they play ecah other at least once? This doesn't matter, people. Just have fun with your game and that's it Posted by Combo Master on 11:11:2001 03:33 AM: My point exactly! Knowing that you're good yourself is important enough. I don't see why we would have to argue about who's better than who...pointless! Good night! Combo Master has spoken! Posted by Vance on 11:11:2001 05:03 AM: A long time ago this was a thread about good Strider double jump combos in MvC1. Personally, I've always used the abridged d.s.jab, c.forward, c.fierce, s.j. short, s.j. short, (double jump), j.jab, j.strong, j.fierce. Nothing too fancy, but it's easy enough that even a monkey can do it. I know you can link a lot of other stuff in there but right now I'm working on my Spider-Man/Captain America team and I'm just too busy to learn the timing to link Strider's Ghram or whatever it is to the double-jump combo. Posted by War_Destroyer on 11:11:2001 08:24 PM: quote: Originally posted by Vance A long time ago this was a thread about good Strider double jump combos in MvC1. Personally, I've always used the abridged d.s.jab, c.forward, c.fierce, s.j. short, s.j. short, (double jump), j.jab, j.strong, j.fierce. Nothing too fancy, but it's easy enough that even a monkey can do it. I can relate to using a combo that's less damaging, but more efficient, but...in this case, the extra damage this "un-combo" does is really worth the effort of learning it, plus it's relatively easy IMO. Posted by Combo Master on 11:12:2001 01:09 AM: I remember that Strider Combo Exhibition Liquid Metal did for MvC1 where he had Zangief in the corner using the lou assist. He chained the Ouroboros twice on the ground, did Legion, and then went into double jump air combo. That was a tight Strider combo! All times are GMT. The time now is 10:45 PM. Show all 79 posts from this thread on one page Powered by: vBulletin Version 2.2.4 Copyright © Jelsoft Enterprises Limited 2000, 2001.